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Post by greatbluehopeful on Apr 23, 2020 10:17:32 GMT
Hi All, The other day there was a discussion on the metal entrance hole protectors...I can't find the thread now. Does anyone remember this discussion, and what was the outcome....I *think* people were saying that putting them on seemed to be favourable to the birds, and attracted more nesters? I have no hole protector on my two homemade boxes, but am thinking of putting one on today, in the last ditch attempt to attract a potential late nester Maybe it reflects in the sunlight etc and attracts them??? (My Aldi box does have a protector, and there is a nest being currently built) How many people on this forum have the covers on the entrance hole and currently have a nest being built right now? Also how many people on this forum have left their boxes with natural wood and how many have painted wood? - does this also make a difference to attracting birds do you think?
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 23, 2020 10:27:23 GMT
Hi GBH
I always use protectors. It is easier to ensure the correct size is used ie 25mm / 28mm / 32mm. Two of the boxes I put up in the woods have been gnawed at around the plate, possibly by a squirrel trying to get at the chicks. So the plate saved them.
I always leave them natural. Not sure if it makes a difference or not. There was a study done in the 1960's that I saw in an old book called "Bird Nest Boxing" by Norman E Hicking. If I still have it I will dig it out and post the relevant pages on this thread.
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Post by WildlifePaul on Apr 23, 2020 11:50:50 GMT
I always use nest box plates, The discussion was happening in Karen's thread, I was the one who brought it up if you wish to look back.
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Post by suep on Apr 23, 2020 12:17:31 GMT
Hi GBH, I usually have metal plates on mine but for me it’s about getting the size of the hole right and not the security angle. Some years back my son had woodpeckers go through the side of his box and had all his chicks, so metal plate would not have stopped that. However, most people feel a box is safer with them on, don’t know if how the birds feel about them though This year, I had two camera boxes up one with a metal plate and the other without. The one with a metal plate has had no interest that I know of, whereas the one with no metal plate had loads of interest but didn’t lead to a nest Sue
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Post by greatbluehopeful on Apr 23, 2020 12:26:36 GMT
I always use nest box plates, The discussion was happening in Karen's thread, I was the one who brought it up if you wish to look back. Thanks Paul...I will scan back to find it so. I've put a large CJ Wildlife 32mm plate on my Beaktrix box now....and I did have another smaller Handycam one to put on the sideview box, but it has gone missing in the move? I'm sure I'll find it eventually. Anyway, the box actually looks very smart and finished now with its entrance hole upgrade. The birds will be able to fix their hair in the reflection now as they come and go. Sue - wow, that is incredible about the woodpecker. Very aggressive. I don' believe I've ever seen a woodpecker here in Ireland but I think we only have 'Great Spotted' ones (having just looked it up.) Interesting to hear about the hole plate selection made by your birds - 1 point for without, 0 points for with!
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 23, 2020 13:39:10 GMT
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Post by Beechnut on Apr 23, 2020 13:57:55 GMT
As you can see on my avatar I have always painted my box.
I have never used a protector!
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Post by matt on Apr 23, 2020 14:08:29 GMT
Some fantastic info in those links, Benn! Lots of food for thought there - the things that jump out immediately are the very strong preference for a deeper nest box (higher hole) and the preference for woodcrete which may or may not be because that box was smaller (11cm diameter) and - they speculate, at least - less light inside. Hmmm! Redesigns coming up for next year I think. Also the idea that colour can make a big difference is something I had not thought of at all (green is better than brown, apparently). I wonder if there are any more studies like this around?
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Post by matt on Apr 23, 2020 14:33:45 GMT
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Post by WildlifePaul on Apr 23, 2020 16:46:14 GMT
If that was the case Matt I'd be nest-less I have 4 boxes on the front of my house all around 6 foot apart, Apart from swift box that is a little closer to my current box being used. On the front of my house at moment I have my usual sparrows plus BT nest which is only around 10 foot across the same wall. Its same on the back of my house, However the back my house on the wall is my "north" boxes that don't get a sniff just roosters. Also in 2016 I had 3 nests on the same wall, 2 BT's 1 sparrow all just matter of feet apart. I think 90% of us have more than 1 box whether it be only 2 or 3 and not the crazy levels of me then again Benn is worse than me now for boxes
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Post by matt on Apr 23, 2020 17:31:42 GMT
Yep - it clearly doesn't stop them nesting if that is the only option locally. My take away from reading the studies Benn posted and a few other ones as well is that will nest just about anywhere if that is the only option going, but will choose certain boxes over others if there are a few choices available. For example, in one of the papers that Benn linked to they had a large number of deep and shallow nest boxes located near to each other, and the deep boxes got 15 nests and the shallow boxes got zero! Deep was 19cm center of hole to bottom of nest box and shallow was 9cm. I think now that having a large number of boxes in my garden all targeting blue tits does not increase my chances of a nest, and perhaps even decreases it, since the birds are aware of all the boxes and might assume that other birds will nest there/competition etc. Next year I might go with one box targeting bluetits, one GTs, 1xstarling and 1xrobin as well. We will see!
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Post by WildlifePaul on Apr 23, 2020 17:46:48 GMT
Just do it by hole size, I have half mine 28mm and half 32mm. You could always try a 25mm hole 28mm and 32mm Matt, Now you have more boxes having the 3 different hole sizes gives it every single hole size really doesn't it? I've never tried 25mm myself, Wasn't yours originally 25mm? Do you also have a box still in the same place it was used the first year?
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tommyg1
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Post by tommyg1 on Apr 23, 2020 18:59:06 GMT
Thanks for this topic and links , interesting stuff ! My boxwatchbox isnt very deep, I use only the lighting when they are some time underway or not in the box and only for a short time. I keep it like nature wanted I guess, a dark hole And dont forget the commercial businness with the camera etc guys, they want earn money
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 24, 2020 9:12:37 GMT
Glad they helped Matt. I have re ordered the old "Bird Nest Boxing" book, only cost a few quid from a second hand online dealer. I will scan and put up his various studies for you to peruse when it arrives.
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Post by matt on Apr 24, 2020 10:07:18 GMT
Thanks Benn, yes that is exactly the sort of information I am interested in! I think real standout from those surveys for me was depth of nest (from hole) and the preference for woodcrete boxes, which they surmise is due to better insulation. That has me thinking that a standard concrete box won't give the same benefits, as concrete is a poorer insulator than wood, but there are some things you can use as concrete aggregate that improve insulation, e.g. perlite and/or vermiculate, which not only gives great insulation but makes a lighter box. I happen to have both for gardening purposes, so that is something I will try as well. Definitely got enough to keep me busy for a while until the next season kicks in, anyway! Also notable that when they put lower/higher nest boxes near each other, the higher one (3m) was more often used. Every little helps, not that I have many 3m mounting possibilities.
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Post by Taz on Apr 24, 2020 10:09:20 GMT
I've only got 1 box, it was from Handykam. The box is green and for years I kept the plate on the front to attract BT's. Once a nearby tree was removed, BT's not so comfortable with the box so last year I took the plate off to attract GT's. We did have a GT nest but that got destroyed . This year also have a GT nest. It is not a deep box either.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 24, 2020 11:10:50 GMT
Good stuff Matt. As I followed a technical/scientific career in my working life, I am a bit of a nerd for studies and published papers
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Post by matt on Apr 27, 2020 12:59:12 GMT
Good stuff Matt. As I followed a technical/scientific career in my working life, I am a bit of a nerd for studies and published papers Me too Benn, except I am still working Here's an interesting one for you - a study looking specifically at the amount of light within nest boxes for great tits (it is incredible what is out there when you really start searching!). The upshot of this study is that great tits prefer lighter boxes over darker ones, which is very interesting (and good for us camera users). They tested this by adding translucent windows to each box, and obscuring them to various extents, but we can replicate with our own lights. So this does suggest that lights won't do any harm, although perhaps it is possible to go too bright.
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Post by greatbluehopeful on Apr 27, 2020 14:09:57 GMT
Hi Matt...
My Aldi box backs up this theory anyway. About two years ago I altered the Aldi box by removing the rectangle white opaque plastic panels and replaced them with the thick round translucent perspex windows. They are much more sturdy, but allows more light through without needing any LED light at all. But I never got the opportunity to try it out until this year.
And low and behold... a Great Tit has now nested in it! So, there you go.
Unfortunately, I need to have the LED strips in my other two boxes as they have no windows at all in them...just the entrance holes. It would be too dark for camera use.
So imagine these are much brighter inside than the Aldi box...maybe they are off putting to the Great Tits as they have never once entered either of these boxes - only Blue tits have & one Coal tit.
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Post by matt on Apr 27, 2020 14:23:47 GMT
...maybe they are off putting to the Great Tits as they have never once entered either of these boxes - only Blue tits have & one Coal tit. Funny that, because I have GTs in the garden often enough but never once has one gone inside any of my boxes either. One has popped his head through the hole, but just a couple of times
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hardy
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Post by hardy on Apr 30, 2020 17:36:14 GMT
I have 3 blue tit nest boxes and 1 for Gt tits and 3 together for sparrows. One of the blue tit boxes has a protection plate and Windows for light. I used to have blue tits every year in this box up to 2017, nothing since. The other blue tit box has had no interest except for roosting and 2 years ago the third blue tit box had interest where the nest was built and then they disappeared. This year a Gt tit built in thr Gt tit box with small light Windows and left and built in the sparrow box facing south with no light and has laid 8 eggs. All of my boxes face north/ nth east except for the one sparrow one. A few years ago I had a Gt Tit nest in the bottom of 3 hollow concrete blocks. She had 4 chicks and 3 fledged.
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tommyg1
Junior Member
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Post by tommyg1 on Jul 15, 2020 11:12:48 GMT
Hi all,
At the moment I have 3 birdbox, Boxwatch(old box) and 2 new ones from Greenfeathers(the big one) and the flat roog from Gardenature. All look sturdy and well made. Great tits are the birds I am looking for so I have a 32mm plate at the entrance hole(greenfeathers and gardenature). A big difference is the depth of the box. Boxwatch is 11,5cm,Gardenature 11cm and Greenfeathers is 19 cm, thats a lot of difference. You can read in the studies that 19cm is better for the birds so my question is, is the box from greenfeathers the best box, hope you will try to give your opinion about this ? By the way, my boxwatchbox does give me a lot of breeding great tits the last 17 years !
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Post by straff on Feb 4, 2024 19:14:14 GMT
Hi, I am not saying adding plates doesn't work but from my experience I would say they do reduce the chance of birds nesting. I have 3 boxes up. One has a camera inside. I had blue tits and great tits checking out the one with the camera..lots of activity. The box has a large hole, so I thought I'd put a 28mm hole plate which I believe is good for great tits. As soon as I added the plate, I've had nothing and all the attention has gone to the other boxes. Each year I had great tits nesting in a box without metal protector and then last year I put a plate on it. I watched birds hover infront of it but never landed. It was obvious they didn't like the plate.
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