|
Post by matt on Apr 16, 2020 13:24:31 GMT
There seems to be quite a few concrete or "woodcrete" type boxes on the market. Any ideas if these are more popular with the birds? I thought it might be quite fun to try and make one, or at least to make the face plate out of molded concrete. This would give a strong hole, and the option to make the hole a bit deeper, which seems to be a feature of many of the concrete boxes on the market. Any idea if the deeper hole/tunnel is something the birds actually prefer? Do you think concrete would work just as well as "woodcrete"? (less insulation, but easier/stronger to make at home I think). I quite like the look of those multi-hole ones as well - e.g. the concrete box with 3x holes in a row going to single box inside.
Any thoughts?
|
|
|
Post by WildlifePaul on Apr 16, 2020 16:51:08 GMT
Hi Matt, That was basically Sue's "lucky box" the 3 hole one, I believe it was used every year for her she's not got it up this year though. I believe her son's got the same box aswell and gets nests every year.
I've never had concrete ones due to cameras etc, Only one i do have is my swift box which I managed to put a camera inside. I have seen alot of success with them online though, you can't exactly get any stronger than a concrete box so must appear really safe for a bird.
|
|
|
Post by matt on Apr 16, 2020 20:40:38 GMT
Thanks Paul - interesting. Sue any chance of some internal measurements from yours? Always interested in a lucky box! I was thinking it might not be too hard to make a mold for just the front plate of, say, the sideview box. I've been looking at a few things online about concrete molding, and assuming I could make a decent version of what I want out of wood first, I could then make a mold of that in rubber and use the resulting rubber mold to make any number of concrete replicas of the wooden original. Would have to have a think about how to attach it to the rest of the (still wooden) box, but probably not too hard to do (maybe a couple of holes for screws is all that is required). Something to keep me occupied until next season, anyway!
|
|
|
Post by WildlifePaul on Apr 16, 2020 21:03:26 GMT
Look what this guy did to one of his gardenature side view boxes Matt. It done the inside concrete, and left the outside like a standard side view box. It actually did get used because I remember seeing the videos to it just cant find it on his twitter.
|
|
|
Post by matt on Apr 16, 2020 21:20:18 GMT
Wow - OK! I wasn't really envisaging anything quite like that. Why did he do it? Was there some reasoning behind having the inside textured in that way that it might attract them, or what? I've been looking into the rubber stuff you need to make the molds and it is rather pricey - like probably more than £50 sort of pricey. Might be worth it if you were going to make a load, but probably not for one or two. Maybe there is something cheaper that can be used though, since it doesn't need to be perfect. I will keep looking.
|
|
|
Post by WildlifePaul on Apr 16, 2020 21:31:36 GMT
Haven't a clue to be honest, He was always doing little "projects" each year with his boxes to see what the birds preferred in the garden. Managed to find a little picture of one his boxes in use though so I'll post it below, hopefully you can find something cheaper, I'd like to see what you do with the idea!
|
|
|
Post by matt on Apr 16, 2020 22:33:20 GMT
Thanks for the pic Paul - sounds like this would be an interesting guy to speak to, if he has also been tweaking his nest boxes. This looks a little smaller inside than a standard sideview? That is something else I have been thinking about - perhaps a little smaller and cosier could be attractive to them? I know the nest box at my old lady neighbours is on the small side, with a low ceiling. I imagine they might like "just big enough" but no bigger. All of this is assuming there is something better on offer of course, because they will nest in most boxes if they have to. I think I can make the concrete mold out of scrap wood, effectively for free, since the design is simple enough. The rubber mold is probably way overkill now that I have thought about it a little more.. Any idea how thick the holes are in the concrete boxes? (I mean how deep - i.e. how long is the tunnel that the bird goes through?) Longer entrance holes will help against predators quite a bit I should think, so perhaps they prefer them? The sparrows and starlings love the holes in my house wall and those are a full brick thick (70mm ish?).
|
|
|
Post by WildlifePaul on Apr 17, 2020 10:23:50 GMT
I don't think the standard concrete boxes you buy have really thick holes Matt, Its probably the same thickness as a standard bird box, The ones I have seen anyway. If you can make it thicker I'm sure it will be more appealing because it offers more protection.
I wonder if thats why my sparrows love my box I have for them, Before under the hole on instead there a "ledge" that is around 5cm / 6cm long before they drop down into the nest part of the box. That is the only difference with that box compared to a normal one, That is designed to offer extra protection because if a cat gets it paw in hole they can't reach into the nest part due to this ledge inside.
|
|
|
Post by matt on Apr 17, 2020 11:07:11 GMT
I wonder if thats why my sparrows love my box I have for them, Before under the hole on instead there a "ledge" that is around 5cm / 6cm long before they drop down into the nest part of the box. That is the only difference with that box compared to a normal one, That is designed to offer extra protection because if a cat gets it paw in hole they can't reach into the nest part due to this ledge inside. That's what I'm thinking Paul - it would be much more secure from cats paws, or bigger birds trying to get their heads in, and I'm sure that one way or another the blue tits can assess how secure a box is when they are checking it out. If you look at www.schwegler-natur.de/portfolio_1408366639/nisthoehle-2gr-dreiloch/?lang=en on the Schwegler website you can see the way the hole is formed, with the ledge on the inside as you describe (so not a thin tunnel all the way in, but an extra step to stop paws reaching over). It also has the dimensions of the box inside, which are actually quite large (14x19cm) for this one. Is this the same as Sue's?
|
|
|
Post by WildlifePaul on Apr 17, 2020 11:17:35 GMT
Ahh I see now Matt, See most concrete boxes don't offer that kinda support! Yes this is Sue's lucky box, I know her son's got the same box aswell and is used yearly. I can see why sue's lucky box was so lucky now! This is the kind of support my sparrow box offers, I'd imagine being concrete and offering that support for a BT would make a huge difference though. We all know how well they check out boxes while looking around its weeks and weeks on end.
|
|
|
Post by matt on Apr 17, 2020 11:34:56 GMT
Also pretty cool the way it gives a little ledge inside for the chicks to perch on and poke their heads through the hole! I love that picture they have on their website with three of them looking out! Right - deffo going to have an experiment, since I have a whole back of cement in the shed and plenty of sand. Probably won't try and make the "woodcrete" although it is supposed to be a better insulator. I wonder how important that is? I think I'll make the concrete a decent thickness, and just use it for the front of the box. Hopefully I can do it so that I can jsut swap the fronts on my existing boxes.
|
|
|
Post by WildlifePaul on Apr 17, 2020 11:49:30 GMT
Sue's actually posted pictures in the past with all 3 heads out like that Matt, I'm sure when she gives this thread a look she might post some old pictures of her lucky box, She had some brilliant ones and videos aswell.
I can't wait to see what you come up with, Will past abit of time during this madness what is going on.
|
|
|
Post by suep on Apr 17, 2020 11:51:06 GMT
|
|
|
Post by WildlifePaul on Apr 17, 2020 11:52:36 GMT
Oh brilliant pictures Sue, I am sure this will help Matt! Have you got some old pictures of your chicks in the 3 holes? I know you had videos in the past.
|
|
|
Post by suep on Apr 17, 2020 12:06:33 GMT
Hi Matt, above are some photos of my woodcrete nest box that has had many many nest in. The birds love it. Just I couldn’t see how to fit a camera in and be able to keep the wires away from the birds. Ironically there is very little headroom to accommodate camera and wiring above the holes, but if you were making your own I am sure it would be possible. My son first bought himself and me one of these boxes because his first nest in a wooden box was broken into at the side by a woodpecker and lost all his chicks. People worry about the front plate, but my son had a front plate and the woodpecker ignored this entry site and went straight through the side. Anyway back to the boxes. As I say I have had many a nest in mine and my son is on about his 5th or 6th year now with a nest every year!!! Measurements as follows:
internal : Font to back 19cm Bottom to top (of apex) 22cm Width 13cm
External: depth (deepest inc hole protrusion) 28cm Height (overall) 31cm Width. 18cm
The holes were around 30mm, but I got my son to make a plate to reduce the holes to 27mm as I wanted to encourage blue tits, but that’s personal choice. As you can see it is a weighty beast, and needs fixing to a wall or concrete post , definitely not a fence panel .
Hope this is of some use to you. Will be VERY interested if you do build one Matt, and obviously someone has managed to get camera in so can be done. The very best of luck.
Sue
ps sorry, didn’t see your post before (only tend to look on the bird boxes), had a message from Paul, and hence my reply to you.
|
|
|
Post by suep on Apr 17, 2020 12:13:58 GMT
Superb when used Matt Sue
|
|
|
Post by matt on Apr 17, 2020 12:38:35 GMT
Brilliant, thanks Sue! Yes, definitely thinking of making something similar. As I said before, probably just go with the concrete front and leave the rest wood, which should be easy enough to do (at least in my mind). Do you know if the front panel of yours is made from normal concrete or the woodcrete (cement/sawdust)? I'm not sure how much it matters - definitely easier to make normal concrete with sand/cement I think anyway. I am off to have a think about how to make a test mold - might just try the hole/perch section as a proof of concept first..
|
|
|
Post by suep on Apr 17, 2020 13:04:23 GMT
|
|
|
Post by suep on Apr 17, 2020 13:13:13 GMT
Brilliant, thanks Sue! Yes, definitely thinking of making something similar. As I said before, probably just go with the concrete front and leave the rest wood, which should be easy enough to do (at least in my mind). Do you know if the front panel of yours is made from normal concrete or the woodcrete (cement/sawdust)? I'm not sure how much it matters - definitely easier to make normal concrete with sand/cement I think anyway. I am off to have a think about how to make a test mold - might just try the hole/perch section as a proof of concept first.. Really can’t tell Matt, it was described as woodcrete but the front panel is definitely smoother so maybe that is just concrete. Great idea to make rest from wood as then you can easily fit camera, but might be an idea to protect the sides with a thin layer of some sort of plaster/concrete for protection unless you have no threat of woodpeckers etc. Wish you well in your venture and can’t wait for next year to see if it works. Will watch this space . . As you can see from photos, when in use, photography opportunities are amazing during feeding and fledging. Don’t know about the lighting situation though as obviously both my sons have been with no lighting and the insides as very dark- don’t know if this has any bearing on their choice or if it’s the safety angle. Sue
|
|
|
Post by WildlifePaul on Apr 17, 2020 13:28:28 GMT
Stunning pictures Sue! I knew your son's was extremely successful aswell, Must be something about them boxes the blue tits / great tits really like.
|
|
|
Post by matt on Apr 17, 2020 13:29:08 GMT
I can't believe we've got to wait another whole year!!
I agree Sue, front panel looks much smoother so could just be normal concrete. I don't think the woodcrete is as strong, so probably not ideal for such detailed parts with the holes etc.
Fabulous pics! Worth getting the three hole box for those alone.
|
|
|
Post by suep on Apr 17, 2020 13:46:56 GMT
A fledging for you to watch when you have a moment., just to wet your appetite. I will stop now - sorry. Sue
|
|
|
Post by matt on Apr 17, 2020 14:22:19 GMT
Lovely video Sue!
|
|
|
Post by WildlifePaul on Apr 17, 2020 15:27:03 GMT
I can't wait to see what you do Matt.
|
|
|
Post by matt on Apr 18, 2020 15:37:15 GMT
This is proving much more work than I thought it would (always does!) but I am making progress. Here's the mold so far - got to paint the exposed MDF a few times and sand before trying the first cast. See if you can make sense of the pic! Found an old kitchen door, 22mm MDF so I'll get double that around the hole which should make it pretty cosy.. If the mold works I should be able to knock a few out for the sideview boxes, then make mold for the 3x hole normal box (don't think I can make 3 holes work with the sideview, or at least not my current sideview boxes):
|
|