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Post by pete11 on May 8, 2022 21:41:18 GMT
I absolutely love your pics. The quality is amazing. You can almost count all the tiny feathers Thanks Sammi - as I said before, they're all freeze frames from the video stream. I'm carefully choosing the most in-focus frame each time there's an interesting shot.
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Post by pete11 on May 8, 2022 21:52:59 GMT
Alas, it seems at least one of the 11 chicks has sadly died in the last 24hrs - spooling through all today's video files from 0430-2030 one dead chick is clearly visible a lot of the time, in the bottom of the nest cup - see where the red arrows are pointing to in this pic (you can just see the yellow beak): Mum seems to be doing an inordinate amount of shuffling of chicks, burrowing right down into the bottom of the nest in what looks to be an attempt to mix the chicks up constantly. I'm guessing this is to try and avoid any chick getting suffocated under the pile-on, which sadly doesn't seem to have worked entirely. But I also wonder whether she can now sense something's not quite right and is maybe trying to find the source of the problem. I wonder how long she'll take to find the dead chick and remove it. I say 'chick', but I'm pretty sure there may well be up to 3 dead chicks, as I can only now clearly see 8 chicks responding to the parents' feeding visits. Oh well, I guess it would have been something of a small miracle for all of the original 11 to make it all the way through to fledging. A couple of video sequences from today: And some pics:
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Post by pete11 on May 9, 2022 13:52:12 GMT
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Post by pete11 on May 9, 2022 20:25:41 GMT
Bit of feeding action from earlier today - just the 5 chicks now, all seem to be doing ok
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Post by matt on May 9, 2022 22:06:43 GMT
It's never nice to witness Pete, but at the end of the day this is a smart survival strategy, if a slightly cruel one. I think the birds will lay more eggs than they would probably be able to rear in an average year, in the hope that the feeding is easy and they can bring them all to fledge. If not, then the weakest won't get fed and will sadly die, until the number left can comfortably be cared for. Five is still a decent number and in fact in my first ever nest I also had 11 eggs and 5 of those fledged.
And you're right about mealworms btw - I tried in that first year and she wouldn't take them. Have had more success with them recently, but haven't yet ordered any this year.
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Post by Taz on May 10, 2022 9:58:41 GMT
Such a shame Pete, I wonder what happened, especially as two parents feeding them?
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Post by pete11 on May 10, 2022 12:27:02 GMT
Such a shame Pete, I wonder what happened, especially as two parents feeding them? Not really sure - but this morning's footage suggests the male isn't coming in with food many times at all. I wonder if he's got divided loyalties with another female, or maybe he's just struggling to find food? It seems mum is having to leave the nest quite a lot to fetch food herself. This morning clearly started with 4 chicks surviving, but over the course of the last six hours it looks very obviously as if one of those has perished even in that small window of time. I can't help wondering if they just get smothered by mum when she sits on them, and if they're not being fed quite enough anyway, maybe that's causing the problem. The ones that don't make it seem to go into a sort of listless phase where they're hardly moving at all and not opening their mouths to respond to the parent bird's feeding calls. So, currently down to just 3 surviving chicks right now!
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benn
Senior Member
Posts: 143
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Post by benn on May 10, 2022 12:32:31 GMT
Sorry to hear this Pete, this happened to us in 2020. Only one eventually fledged. I think the box overheated in the hot May sunshine that year. We have 9 Great Tit chicks at the moment but the parents are completely ignoring the mini mealworms and the weather is pretty cool at the moment.
I would not think there is any smothering and perhaps you are correct in thinking he has another female nearby.
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Post by Taz on May 10, 2022 12:34:10 GMT
Such a shame Pete, I wonder what happened, especially as two parents feeding them? Not really sure - but this morning's footage suggests the male isn't coming in with food many times at all. I wonder if he's got divided loyalties with another female, or maybe he's just struggling to find food? It seems mum is having to leave the nest quite a lot to fetch food herself. This morning clearly started with 4 chicks surviving, but over the course of the last six hours it looks very obviously as if one of those has perished even in that small window of time. I can't help wondering if they just get smothered by mum when she sits on them, and if they're not being fed quite enough anyway, maybe that's causing the problem. The ones that don't make it seem to go into a sort of listless phase where they're hardly moving at all and not opening their mouths to respond to the parent bird's feeding calls. So, currently down to just 3 surviving chicks right now! Such a shame, I really don't like watching when that happens. I have seen it happen many times in previous years too
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Post by Ann70 on May 10, 2022 13:08:52 GMT
Sorry to hear this Pete it’s very upsetting to see this happen I had a mum fed her chicks alone only one was left in the nest seven fledged safely
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Post by starling78 on May 10, 2022 16:39:10 GMT
So sorry to hear this Pete
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Post by suep on May 10, 2022 19:19:05 GMT
This is so sad Pete. Really difficult to know what is happening. We get so attached to ‘our’ little birdie families. I so hope mum manages to keep these remaining chicks. Sue
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Post by pete11 on May 10, 2022 19:58:16 GMT
Thanks everyone. I'm pretty philosophical about it as it's just nature after all, but I do suspect that the local caterpillar supply is just not bountiful enough. It's strange because there are loads of trees around, and in the park not far from here there are loads of caterpillars dangling on threads. Maybe it's something to do with the weather.
I've no idea how big the chicks ought to be after 9 days, but to me they just dont seem to be growing as fast as the robin chicks did earlier in the year Those robins really had their feeding sorted by comparison. These BTs seem to have invested a humongous amount of time getting to this stage from initial nest box inspections - it does seem a big shame and shows just how vulnerable they are as a species.
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Post by sammi on May 11, 2022 8:08:15 GMT
So sorry to hear this. I hope some manage to survive I know there was research going on into the possibility that insecticides brought into the nest on pet and animal fur might play a part I sent in some finished nests a couple of years ago for analysis but I haven't heard any results as yet. There are so many factors that have to be just right it's incredible.
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Post by pete11 on May 11, 2022 16:55:35 GMT
That's interesting Sammi - I'm wondering how insecticides impact the local caterpillar population, too. But yes, it seems highly possible that residues could be carried in on nesting materials. The chick hatching-to-fledging period is quite long (18-21 days) for BTs compared to Robins (14). That surely makes BT hatchlings far more vulnerable, together with the fact they start life in such large broods.
I've looked back at recent footage and the BT parents have definitely been bringing in bits of suet a fair bit. That's a sure sign of a natural food shortage.
If only I'd raised my mealworm game things could have been very different.
However: at this very moment we have THREE chicks all still looking as if they're opening mouths and alive...so who knows, they might yet make it. They've survived another day and I'd almost given up hope of even that happening. But there's at least another week left of their official development period so they're not put of the woods yet by any stretch.
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Post by pete11 on May 11, 2022 21:32:09 GMT
A few pics and a couple of clips from today. Early this morning there was a fairly concerted effort by mum to remove the last dead chick, around 7am. She managed it eventually, so now the nest is at least a bit cleaner Checking the Green Feather app across the day on my phone while out at work, it was hard to determine how the last 3 survivors were doing. I'd sort of assumed the worst, but, checking today's footage more closely, these last 3 do actually seem to be clinging on somehow. In fact, at times they look as if they might actually be doing ok: there's clearly a fair bit of preening going on at times, and they're developing real signs of feathers and a definite stripe on each wing. Mum does keep trying them with suet, but it now looks almost as if they're not interested. They seem to perk up much more when green caterpillar is offered. Thankfully it looked today as if mum (mostly) and dad (occasionally) managed to find enough to service the basic need. All 3 are delivering up some humungous poops, so they must be digesting something significant. But sometimes it almost looks as if the suet's bunging them up! I'd be very interested to know what people think about how these 3 chicks are looking - whether anyone with more experience of what they're supposed to look like at 10 days old? And whether you think they look listless and sleepy, or ok? Two clips, one from this morning and one from late afternoon: And some pics:
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Post by Taz on May 12, 2022 14:58:25 GMT
Your 3 Chicks look well Pete, they are the same age as mine and appear to be just as developed
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Post by suep on May 12, 2022 16:17:49 GMT
The three remaining chicks look good Pete, but it’s a bit worrying that the parents are offering them suet!! The only moisture chicks get is from ‘live’ food and that is why it is absolutely necessary that parents supply moisture in this form - obviously the chicks can’t get to water. Unless they are fed enough live food the chicks will no doubt dehydrate. Maybe the parents are first timers and not quite understanding the importance of this. So so hope these three survive for you. Sue
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Post by sammi on May 13, 2022 7:47:55 GMT
They are looking pretty well I think. I can see one little green caterpillar being fed to one. That's good. Hopefully there are lots more out there.
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Post by starling78 on May 13, 2022 19:50:33 GMT
Your chicks look fine to me too Pete fingers crossed these 3 make it to fledging, I am down to 6 from the original 9 but they are looking strong and the parents are still very active.
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Post by pete11 on May 14, 2022 15:41:45 GMT
The three remaining chicks look good Pete, but it’s a bit worrying that the parents are offering them suet!! The only moisture chicks get is from ‘live’ food and that is why it is absolutely necessary that parents supply moisture in this form - obviously the chicks can’t get to water. Unless they are fed enough live food the chicks will no doubt dehydrate. Maybe the parents are first timers and not quite understanding the importance of this. So so hope these three survive for you. Sue Yes I think the suet is coming from a neighbour's feeder. I agree about the moisture content. But, despite this, my three survivors seem to be doing ok still, for the time being at least.
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Post by pete11 on May 14, 2022 16:17:38 GMT
My three survivors seem to be doing ok still. Thanks for all the confirmations about how you think they're doing.
Two of the three seem to be more dominant and more developed - I think perhaps they might be a couple of the earliest hatched. Number 3 seems to have a bit of catching up to do, and for the past few days I've been a bit concerned it's missing out on food due to the others being more pushy.
But yesterday evening Number 3 was doing some intensive wing exercise, so hopefully all is well.
Here's the wing flapping moment (followed by a feed):
And the same kind of thing from earlier today - all three are getting more feathered by the day:
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Post by suep on May 14, 2022 17:36:01 GMT
Well, they certainly look like they are doing well in these videos Pete, and live food being fed 👍🏻. So hope these three all make it . Loving seeing all the photos and videos . Sue
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Post by pete11 on May 14, 2022 22:36:45 GMT
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Post by pete11 on May 15, 2022 15:43:16 GMT
Day 14 - two weeks into hatching and thankfully it still seems as if my 3 survivors are doing ok. The green caterpillar count seems to have increased, as does the frequency of parental feeding visits. Here's a clip of the delivery of a particularly big, juicy one:
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