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Post by matt on Apr 5, 2019 14:05:46 GMT
Hope is fading (but not dead, yet!) for getting a nest in one of my three boxes this year, so I have started turning my thoughts to next season. It goes without saying I suppose that I want to do everything possible to maximise the chances of getting a nest next year. Since I do have bluetits locally, and all of my boxes were thoroughly checked out from December onward, they obviously decided that they liked someone else's box more than mine - I really want to make sure that is not the case next year, and don't want to have to resort to sabotaging my neighbours' nest boxes!
Factors I can think of (please add any you can think of):
1. Internal size My boxes all follow the RSPB plans, and are 12cm x 12cm inside. Is that possibly a little large? I know the sideview box is popular and that has a base of 8 x 11cm, albeit with a slope to one side that would effectively enlarge the nest area.
2. Wood thickness Mine are 12mm ply - this is actually thinner than the 15mm minimum recommended by the RSPB, but it worked OK last year so I stuck with it (I had a lot of spare birch ply to use up). Thicker obviously helps with insulation, but also gives a longer/more protected entrance hole that can be more like a tunnel. I've even seen some boxes online with doubled wood at the entrance hole giving a real "tunnel" effect, and some of the concrete ones look similar. I imagine this gives extra security from predators and perhaps they like it?
3. Hole size I think we have covered this pretty well in this forum and the old one. Mine are 28 - 32mm, last year was 32mm and didn't seem to bother them.
4. Lights Possible it puts them off a bit if they are directly comparing to a box without them? This is my first year with lights (all boxes).
5. Direction There seems to be a consensus on this with north/east or combination thereof?
6. Height from ground Again a consensus on 2m or so? One of mine is a little higher. All got more or less equal visits but no takers.
7. Location Near bushes, trees etc or not? Busy with people (near house) etc. Mine are varied in that way and didn't seem to make much difference to number of visits.
I would be particularly interested to hear from those who have multiple boxes with different characteristics, and which of them, if any, is consistently chosen over the other. Perhaps we can really narrow down some of the most important features and all increase our chances of getting a nest next year? Or perhaps it really is all just luck of the draw! But there must be something that drives them to choose one or the other.
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Post by sammi on Apr 5, 2019 16:49:54 GMT
Hi Matt, this is a very interesting thread. If it helps the statistics then my nesters have chosen my old Boxwatch set up. This box has no 'windows' cut out for light for the camera. The illumination is just a tiny bulb. The camera itself has no incorporated lighting. I have two other boxes up this year. Both GN apex boxes with LEDs for the first time.....although I have turned them off for the time being. The GN box which is having some visits but no nesting is in the same position as my old box where they nested last year. The chosen box is close to shrubbery and is NE facing I think but need to check that...and about 2 m off the ground. It's not far from the house but fairly quiet I'd say. I'll try to post some pics soon. Good luck again 🤞
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Post by matt on Apr 5, 2019 17:12:17 GMT
Thanks Sammi - yes, I reckon we could help narrow down a few dos and don'ts perhaps. It is just as important to report characteristics of boxes that aren't used as well, especially if they are consistently unused (was it the Aldi box that really wasn't popular?). What thickness is the wood for your Boxwatch box and do you have an idea of internal dimensions?
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Post by sammi on Apr 5, 2019 19:10:29 GMT
Matt I will get back to you on all the dimensions.....I confused things by calling a box an Aldi box but it was the camera from the Aldi box that I used in the Boxwatch box until I managed to get the complete Boxwatch camera set up running again. it's been a complicated history for the box in use at the moment. I forgot to mention it is a smaller entrance. I will get dimensions for you tomorrow. The Aldi box didn't do well and is now in bits. It was never in a prime position though and mainly used as a Robin box.
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Post by WildlifePaul on Apr 6, 2019 0:23:41 GMT
I honestly don't think the perfect box exist Matt, Its all about giving them choice I think, Well that's worked well in my case. I have had blue tits nesting in, Gardenature boxes, Handykam Boxes, Log Boxes, On the wall, In the tree. I think its best to offer them different boxes, They house hunt every possible nest place in the area as you know. In my road, There's about hmm 10 boxes that aren't mine. Basically when the new roofs got done the council put up nest boxes on every other house on the road (if the houses wasn't bought) These was mainly for the sparrows due to doing the roofs taken nest places, Every year I watch "my" blue tits check out them all but they are all the same so I don't worry about them to much they can check out all 10 its the same box just on a different house. Its abit like us, When you go looking for a house you check out different ones before you settle, If you was looking at all same style house its not giving you choice. I honestly do believe its about giving them choice I can only speak about what I do. For lighting my birds don't seem at all bothered, they don't even pay attention to it being in the box. All my boxes have lights this year, The birds in my road have loads of other boxes the council put up with no lights just standard boxes 32mm hole dark, So they even have the choice of lights or no light but still went with mine. I think alot people think because of all my boxes I live in middle no where and getting nests is a given, I live on a normal street I have way more boxes than recommended and I am very lucky to get the nests I do with how many other boxes are about etc. If I was you going into next year I would have a revamp of your boxes, Instead of 3 of the same style, Maybe have 3 different ones. Maybe even different style woods some thicker etc, You could even try one without led lights if you believe that could be a reason (I personally don't believe it would be) but you are in control to mix it up, At moment because you don't have a nest going on you probably think its down to your boxes, But last year that style of box worked for you, This year the birds may of had a little more choice around the area and picked somewhere else. Doesn't mean your box isn't "perfect" it just means they liked something else another box or place had to offer. P.s all my boxes used this year so far are facing SOUTH, my south ones are always my most popular, Over the last 5 years I have 1 nest in my "north" ones and hmm 6 blue tit nests in south ones plus 4 years of the sparrows 2 / 3 broods a year. So the difference in nests is pretty massive, RSPB or BTO tell you south is a no no the birds clearly think different in my area. I make sure all boxes in south have shade in the afternoon sun and never had a problem with heat. Which is also funny when you think about it because all the boxes the council put up face north
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Post by WildlifePaul on Apr 6, 2019 0:31:50 GMT
Oh another thing, All my boxes do have nest box plates on half 28mm half 32mm. I think having the metal plates on helps when the birds "test" the hole makes it appear strong. I know alot of boxes get used without plates so don't think its a must but if box appears stronger around the entrance during the "testing" stage I believe it may have some help in it being used. Sorry for the long message above didn't realise it was that long I can go on with myself when I get started!
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Post by sammi on Apr 6, 2019 10:25:50 GMT
Hi Matt...just to get back to you on the dimensions. The chosen box this year has 12mm ply construction and about 28mm entrance. Who knows why they choose the ones they do. Hope you get more data for your investigations. This is the first year my birds have had such a choice. The patio box has been rooster in quite often and this is the only one attached to the house.
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Post by elle on Apr 6, 2019 15:29:44 GMT
Matt, just following what Paul has said, I personally agree that there is no such thing as the ‘perfect box’. i have 3 boxes in my garden each with a different roof, 1 Plain wood Apex, 1 flat felted roof, 1 Angled box(side view), all have windows of round, square & roof window. i have had successful fledglings out of all 3 in the past. my flat roof has had to 2 half built nests + 1 abandoned nest with chicks (taken to wildlife centre) but still fledged chicks! this box is facing east. my Apex roof has had several successful nests and facing north, but since getting angled box last year the birds have not used it! my angled box ( new last year) had 10 eggs and 9 fledglings its facing west. I was worried bout it cos it’s in direct sun all day from lunchtime. This is the box where my nest is growing at the moment. All made out of different wood. There are never a lot of blutits where I live ( only have 2/3 prs) but there is a lot of natural habitat , trees! And unfortunately I’ve not seen any Gts at all. As far as I know, I’m the only one in our street with nest boxes so you couldn’t put scarcity down to them picking other boxes hope one all this info helps Elle xx
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Post by karenupnorth on Apr 22, 2019 11:17:58 GMT
Just noticed this thread which is very interesting, I also wonder Matt what it is that makes her choose a box over another, I wonder if it is just a feeling she gets that it just feels right, we will never know really. All my boxes are different and all got a good going over but no takers despite nest wriggles and showing great interest. What I found interesting this year was the female that had been checking the tree box out for months and doing wriggles in and I was 99.9% sure she had chosen it, she brought moss inside wriggled it around then went back down for more moss then was gob smacked to see her fly off else where, so after bringing moss inside and doing a nest wriggle it didnt suit her. Perhaps each female have their own preferences. One thing I do know the leds dont bother them at all, at least dont appear to. Next year is going to be interesting for sure!
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Post by WildlifePaul on Apr 22, 2019 13:50:06 GMT
I'd be nest-less if led's was the issue! The birds in my area have the choose of the led boxes and the boxes the council put up without lighting and natural believe me they do check out all the boxes. I think it just depends on what the female wants in the end, Could be another location / garden she prefers doesn't need to be about the bird box, I think these little birds see the bigger picture and judge everything before picking a box. Every year I always get a blue tit that brings material into a number of my boxes before picking one, That is why I don't get overly excited about the first material these days, Material coming in doesn't mean a nest is going to happen sadly. Its a funny one to pin point really, Next year you and Matt could have nests in the boxes that this year wasn't use its just the way it goes. I still stick by not being such thing as a perfect box for them though. I know you and Matt doing more options for next year, Its just a shame you have to wait that long again now! I know we wish our lives away for spring aswell! I am looking forward to seeing what changes you and Matt make for next year, I have seen some of your changes already Karen and very impressed! But while you both wait for next year, Eye up the competition and see how you can go about removing the boxes you find! Start with your neighbours Karen, Perfect weather for a fence fire to start itself!
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Post by karenupnorth on Apr 23, 2019 8:25:53 GMT
They were on holiday last week and I thought to my self perfect opportunity to get rid! But I wouldn't sleep at night. I agree with all you said and next year we may have nests in the very boxes that were not chosen this year, my main change is ensuring they have variety of types and hole sizes. the positions wont be different as I dont have a lot of options available but the GTs I hope will try again next year as they will fit in the new tree box I have for them. I learn from these birds every year, each female have their own way of doing things. It is wonderful to be able to observe them, I look forward to welcoming the fledglings
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Post by sammi on Apr 24, 2019 17:23:29 GMT
Karen I had to laugh yesterday when I saw one of my boxes (unused) at a jaunty angle on the fence. It looked as if someone had tried to 'kidnap' it overnight. Still not sure how it happened but we think maybe a wood pigeon had landed on the roof and taken off causing a bit of a thrust downwards or maybe a neighbour's cat...who knows...or maybe someone increasing their chance of getting a nest We need to put another screw in it I think.
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Post by WildlifePaul on Apr 24, 2019 17:53:24 GMT
Ooooooh Sammi, I'd watch that box if I was you eyes peeled! If your neighbours have the mindset of me its a dangerous place for a bird box. I think I would of removed all the council bird boxes in our road if they wasn't under the eves of peoples back gardens!
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Post by sammi on Apr 25, 2019 19:07:20 GMT
Paul I will get a little alarm fitted .......oh as if I'd not enough to worry about Oh my poor blood pressure
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Post by matt on Apr 25, 2019 21:20:20 GMT
I do wonder actually if part of the reason we have seen a bit of a decline in nests for our members this year is that there are so many other nest boxes out there now? It seems to be a real "thing" now, with the RSPB imploring everyone to put up a box and seeing boxes for sale in all the supermarkets and DIY shops. Certainly around here I don't reckon we have more than one pair of bluetits per 3-4 gardens, so if everyone puts a box up.. I wonder how big their territories are? Some interesting stuff in this thread anyway. I think I will go for a slightly smaller internal size and thicker wood (currently 12mm - will go 18mm or bigger) and then just keep my fingers crossed next year
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Post by WildlifePaul on Apr 26, 2019 12:14:46 GMT
Wonder if word got around your street about your boxes Matt, Didn't you say your neighbour took a few pictures for you last year? I think word got around about Matt's box and they all wanted a slice of the action, Now its your job to take their slice of the action from the gardens over the autumn!
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Post by elle on Apr 28, 2019 15:20:17 GMT
I can feel a ‘fence fire’ coming on Paul!!! Elle xx
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tommyg1
Junior Member
Hi,
Posts: 58
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Post by tommyg1 on Feb 1, 2020 10:25:14 GMT
Hi Matt, its a good question and I ask it myself also. All the points you refer to are important but location is I thinkmost important. Its better to have a poor little box on a good location than the most beautiful sized box on a bad one. But sometimes strange things happen. In the past I had an box which was used 12 years in a row. Then I replaced it for a new one and the great tits didnt like that and take a box on another place. Strange I thought because they like the location in the past but not their new home given
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Post by matt on Feb 3, 2020 20:16:12 GMT
Interesting, thanks Tommy. What was the difference with the new box? Do you have any ideas why they might not have liked it? I do think there must be something about a particular box that some birds like, so it would be good to know if there were any common features, or if some particular models/sizes were more popular with others.
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tommyg1
Junior Member
Hi,
Posts: 58
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Post by tommyg1 on Feb 5, 2020 15:29:14 GMT
Hi Matt, there was not much difference. Only the last box was new The perfect box ? I can not give you an good answer Perhaps there was a new female GT, I really dont know ?
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Post by WildlifePaul on Apr 24, 2020 21:30:23 GMT
Matt, Just a quick one. I've been looking over my records (for your bird survey of my most popular boxes) And i've noticed every year since having them my "flat roof" boxes by gardenature I got my first flat roof box in autumn 2016 it was used the first year I'll post all the videos below from over the years this year I have both flat roof boxes in use one on the front of the house and my tree box This is the box - gardenature.co.uk/product/flat-roof-bird-box2017
2018
2019
And of course my two this year 2020
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Post by WildlifePaul on Apr 24, 2020 21:32:36 GMT
Also funnily enough gardenature actually have two nests this year in their own garden both using the flat roof boxes Never really thought about it but looking back over my records they are the most used boxes in my garden and I have a big range of different styles.
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Post by matt on Apr 24, 2020 21:50:28 GMT
Thanks Paul, more useful info! Any idea on internal dimensions and hole height from (internal) floor?
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Post by WildlifePaul on Apr 24, 2020 22:24:11 GMT
Just took some measurements for you Matt see pictures. The hole to base is showing as around 13.5cm but its probably more likely 12cm or 12.5cm as the wood overlaps to screw the front on. The inside base is 14cm from the back wall to the front of the box and around 10.5cm across, Have a look at the pictures you'll get a better idea.
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Post by WildlifePaul on Apr 24, 2020 22:38:35 GMT
Also Matt have a look at this man's youtube, He was an old poster on the old forum. He's got a flat roof box by GN and if you scroll through his videos its been used for the last 5 years www.youtube.com/user/gardenbirds/videos
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